Mong00se1

Oh the fear of communism one of my favorite topics. Simply I have no idea why people were so afraid of communism. Communism can be a good thing, it looks good on paper. So why has it always failed... Simple the oh so trustworthy human element. If people weren't so damn greedy communism would be the greatest thing that ever happened.

spawn

I think propoganda was the main factor in this. People were afraid that they wouldn't have all the rights that they had/have currently. They didn't want to do something that the government told them to do, they wanted a choice. That's what I think anyways.

Mong00se1

Yeah but why did non-communist governments fear it so much? Oh wait I remember it's the fear of change. People fear chage and thats why communism never really got off the ground.

Booj

That, or the fear of being oppressed. One could attribute that to the fear of change, sure. But look at it this way. Your country is considering a totalitarian system of government. You look across your borders and throughout history, wondering if it will work. However, you don't see ONE instance of it working effectively for the betterment of the people. Would you want that? I sure wouldn't.

It looks good on paper, yes. The problem comes, as you said, from the human element. However, the human element will ALWAYS be present. As such, what looks good on paper must be modified, to reality, where it doesn't look quite so hot.

Mong00se1

That still gives no reason for people to fear it people think all people that support cummunism are bad but that isn't true.

k1nk0s

In communism you don't have to many freedoms and people didn't want that and with all the propoganda was in the air at the time it's no wonder why everyone feared communism. People were being executed, imprisoned for being a communist. I know I would be afraid of Communism just for that reason.

Mong00se1

That is exactly what I am talking about people getting executed and stuff. They were executed because peopled feared communism and in communism you still have the same freedoms everything is just more spread out.

Booj

Yes, people feared Communism. Really, what they feared was the Soviet Union and it's smaller states. Communism was simply the idea that sparked those nations, and as such, should be feared. Why?

Because there were no freedoms. In Communism, yes, there are still freedoms (I'm not sure what you mean by.. Spread out...) but not as much as a democratic, capitalist society. Don't argue, it's true. While capitalism may be less ideal than a perfect Communist society, I challenge you: Find the perfect Communist nation. Do it, right now. What, can't find one? Yeah, because it doesn't work in reality.

Mong00se1

It could if you had a selfless (well atleast somewhat selfless) if I ran a communist nation it would be perfect.

Booj

Yeah, exactly. You can't find one, can you? Because they are ALL corrupt. One would assume that this means it is VERY unlikely to work right, if not downright impossible.

Also, your "if I ran a communist nation it would be perfect." statement implies a basic misunderstanding of how communism works. In a perfect communist society, NO ONE would run it. Essentially, it would run itself. However, as you seem to understand, this is quite impossible given humanity.

aerojad

Communism, on paper, is the closest humans can get to a utopian society. Unfortunately the current world structure requires someone to lead a nation, which creates an inherant power structure that can be easilly exploited in a communist society, so it doesn't quite work.


Socialism would be a more appliable concept in today's world.

benzs_s

To be fair to Karl Marx he wrote the communist manifesto based on Britain during the mid 19th century... so the industrial revolution. Socialist philosophy has been demonised because not all the criteria were met.

Also, socialism DOES NOT imply totalitarianism.

Danisty

Or everyone would run it. Either way you run into a problem. In a government with one person in absolute power, you have to worry about that one person being corrupt. That's no good. In a government with many people working together, there is not so a great a chance of all of them being corrupt. In a government where everyone has a measure of power, you have to suspect anyone of being corrupt. It's bound to cause all kinds of mistrust. Nobody is willing to live in a communist society. Many people think they are, but just wait until they are the ones working hard and watching all of their hard work benefit someone else. If I'm doing more, I want more. That is human nature. What have I got to strive for if all the extra effort I put in is going to help someone I don't even know...someone I can't even verify needs my help? Why can't they put in their share of effort? Humans are just too suspicious and malicious by nature for that kind of trust to exist on such a grand scale. You can't tell me there aren't people out there that would abuse the system. You can't convince me that there aren't people who would slack off and feed off of the hard work I'd be putting in. Successful communism doesn't require just one good leader. It requires all good citizens. That's never happened and it never will.

Punitor

Ladies and Gentemen!
All of You speak about Communism like about something ideal.
Oh, no, Russian Communism had very real, touchable features.

First of all, Communism HAS NOT BEEN built.
The System Built in USSR was officially called "socialism".
USSR means "Union of Sovet SOCIALIST Republics", where "Soviet" literally means "conference, advice".
Soviets planned to achieve Communism by 2000 year or later.

WHY THE COMMUNISM WAS DANGEROUS TO CAPITALISM?
As we all know, communistic ideas used to spread in late XIX - early XX cent.
As a result, liberal countries experienced Revolutions.
What is Socialist Revolution in capitalist view?
Of course, loss of money.
And reachest British and Americans OLIGARCHS didn't want to lose their capital.

In other words, all wars of XX cent. commit because of money.

WHY THE COMMUNISM BECAME POSSIBLE?
There was the World War I, Germany against Entente.
Russian Empire was an enemy to Germany. And Germany sponsored Lenin to make a Revolution in Russia. Lenin promised to quit the War and to pay the Contribution.

THE WORLD WAR II
The Soviet Union became stronger and stronger. Moreover, Lenin pretended to transfer Revolution to ALL THE WORLD.
The West understood a need to prevent the virus.
However, the war was very expensive measure.
And Capitalists chose another way.
They sponsored Hitler and helped him with his sick idea of world leadership.
So they OPPOSED TWO PRETENDERS FOR WORLD DOMINATION.

THE COLD WAR
After all, the reason of the Cold War was clear.
Economical blockade, WoMD's, blablabla

THE FALL OF THE EMPIRE
As the Capitalists had more money, Soviet Union was condemned.
All Soviet Industial Plants were designed to fit Military Demands.
In emergency, any Plant could be transformed into a Military Unit during a few hours.
There's also a great difference between Soviet and Capitalistic Nuclear Power Plants: Soviet-built ones can produce WEAPON PLUTONIUM.

We produced more nuclear submarines than civilian cars.
Until mid 90s, all trucks, even small ones, were painted in military green color.
Naturally, such economic had no way to develop.
Social crisis also became actual. (Of course, US Intelligency supported dissidents).
The final point was CHERNOBYL disaster. (Never call it incident nor accident - it was disaster or catastrophe).
Three towns were resettled (Pripyat, Chernobyl, Slavutich - over 130,000 people).
Just try to imagine - in one day 130,000 people lost all they had.
Over 1,000,000 liquidators (stalkers), colossal economical loss, political crisis.


That is, in short, the history of REAL Communism.
However, there wasn't only bad (or how could we survive, right?)

- you can't lose your job,
- free hospitals,
- free dwelling,
- free education (any carpenter's son could become a lawyer!)
- no hunger, no poverty!
- faith of bright future, and more...

All said was actual for Moscow society, but in province sun shone same as in New-York, Black Sea was as beautiful as Caribbean, grain waves was same amber as in America, and all simple people were just like all simple people around the world.

P.S. If you want something horrific about Communism, try to find Solzhenitsyn's books.
He wrote about prisoners of Stalin times.

See also http://www.theroadtowar.com/many-you...=2443#post2443